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Thread: How Jaymes Markham's Solamnic Empire Might be Governed

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    Thanks. Paladine as Valthonis was too much of a wild card to remain in play, and I wanted there to be some reason for a long term cease-fire between Palanthas and Solamnia to hold until the acceptance of the two powers as two separate political entities. Having the High Clerist's Tower be simply too sacred to attack meant that you couldn't just hurl troops and cannons at the city until it collapsed. Plus, Paladine would work as the archetype of the sleeping king, resting in a healing sleep until Takhisis returns.
    In this case a "Sleeping God". I was never a big fan of Paladine demoted into Valthonis thing. Your idea is better and would concider "borrowing" it if I came back to AoM Dragonlance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    Actually, I have three grandmasters as well. The Grandmaster of the Knights of Solamnia is the Emperor. The Grandmaster of the Sovereign Order of the Whitestone rules over Sancrist (a nod to the Sovereign Order of Malta). Finally, there is the anti-Grandmaster of the Knights of Solamnia who basically is the head of a secret society who seeks to keep the ancient traditions alive, sort of like all those cults and secret societies who claim they are the true Knights Templar in our own world.
    Whenever Solamnic knights and Sancrist come up I always think of the Knights of Malta (world's oldest surviving chivalric order), who helped stop the growth of Ottoman power in the Western Mediterranean. They ruled Malta until 1798, when a certain be emporer-to-be kicked them off the island.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaemonAngel View Post
    In this case a "Sleeping God". I was never a big fan of Paladine demoted into Valthonis thing. Your idea is better and would concider "borrowing" it if I came back to AoM Dragonlance.
    You are welcome to it. Since Mina didn't have a clergy or a strictly good/evil or neutral ethos, I found it convenient to bump her down to a demi-goddess or emyprean (5e monster that is the child of a god). I briefly considered making two new gods to fill Paladine and Takhisis' shoes, but I realized that there is something essential to Bahamut and Tiamat in the Dragonlance setting and it wasn't quite the same without them. I do agree that the Paladine vs. Takhisis wars were getting stale though, so instead they are still around but lingering. Takhisis is lingering on as a unquiet spirit in the vision of the Knights of Nereka and its warlocks, while Paladine is a sleeping god in the High Clerist's Tower.

    Whenever Solamnic knights and Sancrist come up I always think of the Knights of Malta (world's oldest surviving chivalric order), who helped stop the growth of Ottoman power in the Western Mediterranean. They ruled Malta until 1798, when a certain be emporer-to-be kicked them off the island.
    Yes, though I am pleased that they are back on the island with a treaty ratified in 2001. Hopefully someday Greece will allow them to have a presence on Rhodes as well.

  3. #13
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    Default The Lower Nobility

    Barons
    Barons are lords who owe fealty to a local count, duke or margrave, though barons in the Duchy of Heartlund would owe fealty to the emperor directly in his role as Duke of Heartlund. The size of a baron’s territory is indeterminate, but generally includes the manors of several lords and possibly a small town (with a mayor) and a few smaller villages. Barons are also generally tapped to serve specific administrative positions in the courts of their superior lords.

    Lord (of the Manor)

    Ruler of a manorial fief, usually consisting of a hamlet or village, which supports a fortified manor house, a mill, oven, and other sources of revenue. Generally a community with a few free artisans and farmers, but many more tenant farmers who are obliged to give the lord labour and/or cash for rent.

    There are four ways to become a manorial lord.

    1) Through inheritance of family possession, not only the eldest child of a manorial lord, but as compensation to the younger sons or cousins of a higher noble.

    2) Through service of arms – A captain of soldiers or knights who caught the eye of a count, duke, margrave or baron may be elevated to a lordship, particularly if he is settled along with his company of men (who would homestead farms) in a frontier region.

    3) Through service of office – A Lord Mayor or administrative official of the Emperor or a high noble is usually granted a lordship with property and subjects to protect the noble dignity he acquired in that office. This allows the individual to be continue being called “lord” in his retirement and the property serves as a retirement bonus.

    4) Through the purchase of a title – Lordships can be purchased from higher nobility, and is frequently done by merchants who have made their fortunes. While this legally gives the rights of nobility, social acceptance takes longer as it is quite a vulgar way to acquire the title.

    Master

    I wanted something equivalent to a Edler (noble), or baronet, and I wanted something that would cement the power of the merchant class which was always important in the books. Thinking about Guildmasters as being a type of noble appealed to me. When reading DLA, I was struck by how all three knighthoods had “Master of the (order name)” and I started linking the two concepts in my mind. I thought that Solamnics care about honour and freedom, so the right to command other men would probably come with a sense of noble status. Even if the rank of master doesn’t catch on as something official, it is an instructive catch-all term to give a sense of what kind of people would be considered peers among the lower ranks of the nobility.

    Master of the Crown (Knight Banneret/Infantry Captain) – A commander of a small calvary troop of Solamnic Knights, or a couple hundred infantry armsmen raised by feudal obligation. He would essentially be the immediate liege lord to these fighting men, and responsible for seeing that they are properly equipped and drilled when called upon for service by his liege lord.

    Master Clerist (Abbot, Dean, Chaplain etc.) - The rank given to Clerics and paladins who hold some sort of leadership position in the military or in society. Like I mentioned previously, the Orders of the Rose and Order of Clerists will largely exist to “ennoble” and grant honour and prestige to officials of State and Church respectively. So even if a PC character is a foreign-born commoner, the honour bestowed by his rank in the knighthood grants him entitlement to a certain level of respect.

    Master of the Rose (Court Official) – Someone who comes from common stock who serves as an official in the Imperial government. For example, Master of the Vingaard River would be an important position overseeing toll collectors and river policing river traffic. I’ll go more into the bureaucracy of the Imperial household in later posts.

    Master of the Estate (Viscount, Vicar or Steward) – Someone who manages the estate or castle of a more powerful lord such as a count, duke or clerical patriarch. It may also refer to someone who is not a manorial lord, but possesses an estate with tenants and sufficient wealth to be seen as noble like a country squire.

    Master of the Company (Captain) - Captain of a mercenary company or a trading company. Solamnia in this coming era will make extensive use of mercenaries drawn from the towns and cities of the empire, with contracts offered to men who can fulfill a quota for soldiers to serve as pikemen and musketeers. Trading companies or “houses” as well will form to negotiate with the crown for territory, routes, trading rights and government contracts. A ship’s captain would probably fall under this category as well, if he owns the ship himself.

  4. #14
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    Honestly, I don't think Markham became Grand Master of the knighthood. Was I asleep when that happened? I figured his title is emperor and the grand master stayed with who it was. Sir Liam, right?
    -Dragonlance Nexus Social Media Manager-
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue View Post
    Honestly, I don't think Markham became Grand Master of the knighthood. Was I asleep when that happened? I figured his title is emperor and the grand master stayed with who it was. Sir Liam, right?
    Jaymes Markham is the Emperor and Lord Marshal of the Solamnic Armies and commanded all three of the Orders of Knighthood. So he is functioming as the Grandmaster.

    Now is Liam Erhling still Grandmaster in Sancrist? Maybe. If so, it is in name only, and the knights in Solamnia seem to regard Jaymes as their overlord.

    I can't concieve of a scenerio where Jaymes allows the title to pass from Ehrling to anyone else but Jaymes Markham. It just has too much legitimate power, and it was synonomous with being Solamnic Emperor during the reigns of Vinas Solamnus and his heirs.

    If Sancrist knights resist Jaymes Markham's control, and we all seem to presume that they would try, we will end up with two knighthoods, and Jaymes will be Grandmaster of the order in Solamnia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    Jaymes Markham is the Emperor and Lord Marshal of the Solamnic Armies and commanded all three of the Orders of Knighthood. So he is functioming as the Grandmaster.

    Now is Liam Erhling still Grandmaster in Sancrist? Maybe. If so, it is in name only, and the knights in Solamnia seem to regard Jaymes as their overlord.

    I can't concieve of a scenerio where Jaymes allows the title to pass from Ehrling to anyone else but Jaymes Markham. It just has too much legitimate power, and it was synonomous with being Solamnic Emperor during the reigns of Vinas Solamnus and his heirs.

    If Sancrist knights resist Jaymes Markham's control, and we all seem to presume that they would try, we will end up with two knighthoods, and Jaymes will be Grandmaster of the order in Solamnia.
    Well, I need to look at my copy of Knightly Orders of Ansalon.
    According to the Lexicon:
    http://lexicon.dragonlancenexus.com/...p/Grand_Master
    Liam died in 424 AC.
    http://lexicon.dragonlancenexus.com/...oddard_Tasgall
    Goddard Tasgall seems to be the next possible grandmaster, but there never a vote. Also, it seems he's based in Sanction.
    Fanwank
    Formerly from Wikipedia, circa 2006-7,
    A fanwank is [...] an attempt by fans of a work of fiction to explain or justify plot holes or continuity errors, often through convoluted contrivances...

  7. #17
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    “Come on in, Doug. Sit down. Listen, we’d like you to write a trilogy about Solamnia. A civil war, an invasion, whatever.”
    “Solamnia? You mean Thorbardin?”
    “No, Doug, Solamnia.”
    “Oh. Okay. Great! Let’s see. Who’s the Grandmaster, right now? That Lord Tasgall guy from War of Souls?”
    “No. I don’t think so. I don’t know. You know what, just leave that vague while we figure it out. Just write about anything else other than the Grandmaster situation.”

  8. #18
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    To be fair, he did mention Lord Tasgall as being the lord in Sanction at the beginning of the trilogy, and explained that Tasgall had declared Bakkard du Chagne the Lord Regent of Solamnia. I just forgot.

    The Dragonlance Nexus says that Tasgall is only acting grandmaster because of the War in Solamnia, with the war in Solamnia preventing the calling of a council to elect a new one. I assume that Jaymes Markham would become Grandmaster at the war's conclusion because he seems to command the loyalty of the knights and has broken the power of the upper nobility to such an extent that he is calling himself Emperor, which no man did in over five hundred years. I can't see Jaymes being dumb enough to simply hand over a title that says you can command the elite forces of his military. There is no monarch that has a commander in chief, unless that monarch is a figurehead.

    While I'm admitting to mistakes, I found an off-hand reference to an Earldom being awarded to Adrian du Chagne during the War of the Lance in "Lost Leaves from the Inn of the Last Home". On the plus side, my instinct that someone would be bringing in more European titles as soon as Duke showed up as a Solamnic title was correct. I should have realized though that English-speaking authors and fans would use British peerages. So all references to "Counts" in this thread should be considered to be Earls, and Margraves are now the English Marquess.

  9. #19
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    This might interest you:
    Doug Niles Fan Interview

    The Grand Master still exists, but in the post war world I am assuming that his influence is limited to Sancrist and the far west.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer View Post
    This might interest you:
    Doug Niles Fan Interview
    Well, it looks like from what he says there, he is expecting a splintering of the Solamnic Knighthood as well, similar to the models we are all suggesting in this thread, with Solamnia under Jaymes, but Sancrist and Sanction going their own way. Myself, I prefer Sanction to be a free city under Hogan Bight than a Solamnic one, so Lord Tasgall will probably end up going to Sancrist and taking over Castle Uth Wistan as his stronghold.

    ------------------------------

    One question for the thread, Solamnia doesn't have Sheriffs does it? I'm working ahead to try and figure out what the lowest levels of administration are (so I can figure out the nuts and bolts of how the vast majority of people are governed) and I can't find any references to Sheriffs in any of the novels that take place in Solamnia. Abanasinia has Sheriffs in Staughton, New Ports, and Solace in the Amber Trilogy, there is a short story by Nick O'Donohue about a sheriff that lives in a place called Rockhaven (sounds like an Abanasinian name to me) and Lucy (Ulin's wife) becomes a Sheriff in Flotsam. I'm just wondering if I'm going against some common understanding here.

    Abanasinia is divided into shires centered on important towns ruled by an elected mayor and defended by a Sheriff in the civilized parts. In the interior plains you have Shu tribal lands, and self declared baronies carved out of those tribal lands where some lord has constructed a small keep out of brick or wood.

    Solamnia is divided into stem duchies, earldoms, baronies, knightly manors, and city states, with pockets of territories with no government at all. Rural districts, villages, towns and small cities have local government made up of free property owning men. These communities elect a few officials, but these officials and spokesmen of the local government reports to their local lord (usually a manor lord or baron) who has been given overlordship over this area and is responsible for law and order.

    This all makes sense with what we know right? Cause I am about to disgorge a whole bunch of paragraphs on what role the Knighthood plays as a bridge between common people and the higher nobility, and how the knighthood fills the ranks of the higher nobility, so I want to see if we have a common understanding before we go forward.
    Last edited by ferratus; 01-17-2018 at 02:24 PM.

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