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Thread: Where Should Bardic Colleges be Built?

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    Default Where Should Bardic Colleges be Built?

    Dragonlance, even though it has a god with the sobriquet of "The Bard King" has been unsure of what to do with Bards.

    In 2e, they could become powerful enough arcanists to become the rivals of mages, but didn't follow the rules of mages.

    In 3e, they had their own magic, which unfortunately included healing spells, which is problematic for all WotL era games where healing spells were supposed to be limited to clerics alone. That led most to assume that if they were allowed at all, they should be considered "Cantors of Branchala". I believe I remember having having many bitter disagreements over whether someone could be a divine/arcane mixed caster with many considering "total devotion" being a prerequisite for being a mage or a cleric at all. You can't serve both arcane magic and a divine god. Whereas I figured devotion was expressed with experience points and being limited to 20 levels.

    In 5e, magic is more plentiful than ever, with magical fighters and thieves, feats that allow you to snatch a few cantrips from other classes or cast spells as rituals, or other means of dabbling and mixing magic. So unless one wants to stick to an earlier edition (which is fine for those who like it) I think the genie is out of the bottle and mixing magic is here to stay. So with a nod that curative spells are due to all bards being a minor order of clergy in the Church of Branchala, and the fact that every bardic college has observers from the Order of High Sorcery to keep an eye on the "dabblers" and I think that we can finally reconcile Bards to Krynn, especially in a 5th Age and 5th Edition Krynn.

    So here is a question, where should the colleges be built? We have rules for 5 colleges so far: The College of Lore (skill bards), The College of Valor (battle bards), the College of Swords (duelist bards), the College of Whispers (Sneaky bards) and the College of Glamour (fey glam-rocker bards).

    If we assume that these colleges are literal places (which I like to do with such a small continent as Ansalon) where would you build them? The only one I really have a place where I think one could go would be the Lost Library of Tarsis, where I would revive as the College of Lore.

    5th Age sourcebooks talked about Bardic College in Lanction, Ergoth. Which college should that be? Where would you place the other three?

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    To me, since humans get to be the masters and gatekeepers of so many things on this planet, it would be nice if Bards were given an “Elvish” flavor on Krynn. So the idea would be that Elves are the originators and teachers of the craft, and if you wanted be a bard you would have to “learn the Elvish ways” — go to them and live among them, learn the teachings of their god Branchala, etc. So the bardic colleges equivalents on Krynn would be certain Houses of the Elven nations.

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    Yeah, one of them maybe. The flaw in that logic is that once a few Human Bards have learned from the Elves, their drive and and ambition compared to the other races would lead to Human Bardic Colleges all over Krynn, and back to the original question, which has yet to be answered.
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    I've been looking forward to this topic from some time, so apologies when, not if, this goes too long. I wrote these few things about bards for a historic background of a campaign based in Lancton, Northern Ergoth:

    " (...) 2066 PC – Quevalin VII visits Lancton to lay the foundation stone of the Dome of the Walking Liberty upon his shadow at dawn, following the Ergothian tradition. Local authorities organize a festival to celebrate the first visit of an Ergothian emperor to the settlement. That same night, three members of the Emperor´s entourage, sibling rhapsodists Thamrys and Phidama Auvris and elven harper Illeren Sorin, share a dream: a majestic building is created by the notes and chords of a celestial song chanted by hundreds of mortal voices in unison. They wake up to find Illeren’s harp deeply rooted in the ground, transformed into a blooming ash.
    Devote followers of Branchala, the three recognize the work of his god and go to the emperor at once. Quevalin publicly declares that Bran supports the rebirth of Ergoth beyond the dark past of war and strife and that a new age of prosperity starts for the empire. He orders the construction of a building around the ash where Ergothian artists can work in peace, learning the ways of other races and encouraging and preserving the performing arts in the nation; he also funds the construction of docks alongside the Dermount to facilitate the trade by the river. The Bard College is founded and Thamrys, Phidama and Illeren become the first Master Bards, beginning the still existing tradition of an elf Master Bard in the college."

    "(...) 1492 PC – Pieder Irgun, longtime Master Bard in the Bard College and celebrated organist of the Dome of the Walking Liberty, receives the inspiration from his god Sirrion to create his masterpiece after years of unsuccessfully trying. At the age of 96 years he spends a day long with preparations, all Lancton present to hear the most beautiful sounds ever created. For an hour Pieder playes the organ without a break with his unwavering tenor voice as the only accompaniment and the city holds its breath. With the last note of the song, physically and spiritually drained, Master Pieder expires. No clerical healing is able to help him, nor can anyone present recall a single note of the symphony they have just heard.
    A state funeral is held in Lancton and his body is laid to rest in the temple he had died before the Emperor himself. Before a flabbergasted multitude, however, Master Pieder reappears during the ceremony as a translucent, ghostly figure, to play his own requiem as deftly as if he was alive. Since that day he keeps appearing and playing his instrument following a schedule of his own to the amusement of his audience."

    "(...) 873 PC – Libar Rainbow becomes the first kender to study at the Bard College. An accomplished storyteller and entertainer, she graduates six years later against all odds and eventually becomes a Master Bard after two decades of Wanderlust. She is credited with introducing the study of kender musical instruments into the college’s curriculum."

    "(...)173 PC – An Ergothian delegation headed by Lanctonian Master Bard Darcon Wulfric attends the commemoration of the crowning of Kingpriest Hysolar in Istar. During an official dinner with the kingpriest and many guests, Wulfric, who besides formally revering Branchala is also a scholar who defies the idea of gods as supreme beings who must be adored, starts a discussion with Hysolar about the nature of faith and good in the absence of other alternatives. He argues that the Istarian ideal of the destruction of evil is not only impossible but also pernicious, as the violence and prejudice it engenders corrupts the people even more that the doctrine it intends to fight.
    Incensed by what he sees as blasphemy, Hysolar orders the execution of the bard right there as well as the arrest of the entire Ergothian legation, despite the indignant protest of many diplomatic representatives also in attendance. The Silvanesti elves leave Istar at once and the Knights of Solamnia threatens to do as much if the Ergothians are nor released and allowed to return home safely. The situation stalls for months until the demise of Hysolar, as his successor Sularis, former High Clerist of the Knighthood, promptly grants the Ergothian free pass with the remains of the master bard, recovered and consecrated according to the tenets of Branchala. A year after his death, Master Wulfric’s body is cremated and his ashes spread in the wind at the feet of the sacred ash at Lancton."

    "(...) 114 AC – A young Qualinesti elf by the name of Quivalen Soth arrives to Lancton to study at the Bard College, his past life a mystery. Lacking funds or patronage, he is forced to survive by writing love letters for foppish noblemen, working as an amanuensis or teaching calligraphy and music, and even so he enters the college at the first attempt, soon becoming the most famous bard that ever existed.
    For more than 300 years he writes over 1500 works, including poems, religious hymns, narrative, theatre and the most thorough compilation of folk songs and ballads about the history of the Age of Dreams, the renowned Lifescroll of Song. He also succeeds Ulian Soval as royal archivist of Qualinesti before and after the fall and serves three different periods as headmaster of the Bard College. His greatest achievement as headmaster is the commission and execution of a compilation of Kender, Gnome and Goblin folktales titled “Lore of the Small People”."

    "(...) 395 AC (12 SC) – The famous bard and sage knows simply as the Herald makes a surprise appearance in Lancton, much to the delight of the Master Bards of the Bard College, who have been trying to meet him for years. He agrees to stay in the city as their guest for a week though he politely refuses to become part of the staff. Every night of that week he performs at different taverns of the city with great success. During his time in Lancton he meets and talks to afflicted kender Billie Juniper and local nobleman Lord Ellis Lorey among many others. The day after their conversation, Billie Juniper marches to Hylo, where she will seize power from the Windseed family less than two years later, and Ellis Lorey, a former student at the Imperial Academy of Sorcery and magic historian, goes to the Bard College with an idea about how to channel magic through the expression of art and music. Two decades later, bards start being able to perform minor magic through music and words in Ansalon."

    That's enough. I have 10 pages of this, and have often thought about submitting it to the Nexus, but this will do for now. Apologies for the forced English. I tried very hard to constrain everything to canon, so dates and names I found in canon material should be very precise.

    When I wrote this I had been combing the Lexicon and the Chamber of Astinus for anything bard-related. Other than Lancton, the following are the mentions I could find:

    • - "The port town of Goodbay lies on the western edge of Abanasinia, directly south of Zaradene. Goodbay is in the middle of the trade route between Zaradene and Ankatavaka, and naturally reaps great benefits from it's location. Goodbay is known as a haven for bards and is governed by the master bard of the local school."
    • - "Further south-west from Tantyvil along the Emperor's Road, is where Castle Crimson is located. The grand structure is built from red stone and resides on a large hill so it overlooks the surrounding lands. Once ruled by a member of dwarven nobility, the castle has since fallen into the hands of half-elves. The presiding lord of Castle Crimson has a Qualinesti elf for a mother, and his father was an Ergothian noble and a direct relation to the emperor of Ergoth Proper. The Lord of Castle Crimson normally occupies a seat in the Imperial Senate, and has a powerful legion of soldiers at his disposal within the castle. Surrounding settlements are situated at the base of Castle Crimson, and are home to guild thieves, bards and Qualinesti refugees who are considered as the protected and favored by the rulers of Castle Crimson."
    • - "Taverns and bardic colleges, often constructed in Branchala’s name, see increasing use as platforms to proselytize for the Songmaster. Chief among these is the Song of Life Tavern in Palanthas. Named for the god decades ago, the tavern is well known throughout Solamnia for its excellent nightly performances."


    Borlos the bard from Dezra's Quest would make a fine skill bard, I think, so it would make sense that the college in Goodbay is another of Lore, as it would Inath-Wakenti, given Gilthas' academic tastes.

    The dwarfs have their own bards, a skald-like organization (the daewar Golden Hammers from Races of Ansalon), so a sizeable dwarven settlements such as Thorbadin would be a good location for a College of Swords, and it is also mentioned in the canon that minotaurs have a few skalds of their own.

    Kenders are supposed to have the greatest love for bards among all races, mostly Gileanites, so again, Lore, though I think they would be more suited to learning on the go.

    Taverns and temples of Branchala (like the aforementioned Song of Life in Palanthas), sanctuaries of Sirrion and hideouts of Hiddukel in densely populated places (Lemish, Palanthas or Thenol, perhaps) could be great places for Glamour, Valor and Whispers, respectively. Sancrist would be a good place for a College of Valor, I think.

    And that's all I have. Sorry for the extension. Hope it helps.
    Last edited by daperdepa; 10-09-2017 at 12:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer View Post
    To me, since humans get to be the masters and gatekeepers of so many things on this planet, it would be nice if Bards were given an “Elvish” flavor on Krynn. So the idea would be that Elves are the originators and teachers of the craft, and if you wanted be a bard you would have to “learn the Elvish ways” — go to them and live among them, learn the teachings of their god Branchala, etc. So the bardic colleges equivalents on Krynn would be certain Houses of the Elven nations.
    I certainly agree that the elves should be the originators of bardcraft. Elven culture matches the celtic flavour of bards the best, elves hold Branchala in high esteem even more Paladine in some sourcebooks. With Paladine's exile, he is probably the chief god of the elves after the War of Souls.

    But I can't really go along with keeping it there. The elves are isolationist in the War of the Lance period, and are in a diaspora in the Age of Mortals. So either they are too closed to make bards of other races, or too dispersed to keep their culture as a purely elven thing.

    Besides, it doesn't really fit with the setting lore, which put bards in Ergoth. I would say that it started as an elven thing, but bardcraft along with the worship of Branchala spread to Ergoth with human/elven intermixing in the years before the Kinslayer War and continued after the signing of the Swordsheath Scroll. That seems to match with the sources provided, so let's turn to what daperdepa wrote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daperdepa View Post
    That's enough. I have 10 pages of this, and have often thought about submitting it to the Nexus, but this will do for now. Apologies for the forced English. I tried very hard to constrain everything to canon, so dates and names I found in canon material should be very precise.
    Your English is fine. How much of that history was found somewhere and how much is your own creation? It is very good, and I wouldn't change any of it. It certainly works very well as a history. The only thing I would add is more meddling by the Order of High Sorcery. Bardic magic just seems like something they would be interested in at best, and suspicious of at worst.

    If you were to make the college of Lancton a bardic college in 5e D&D, what bardic college subclass would you make it?
    s
    [*]- "The port town of Goodbay lies on the western edge of Abanasinia, directly south of Zaradene. Goodbay is in the middle of the trade route between Zaradene and Ankatavaka, and naturally reaps great benefits from it's location. Goodbay is known as a haven for bards and is governed by the master bard of the local school."
    I kind of think of Abanasinia as a collection of trading medieval city states like those on the Baltic, Mediterranian or Black Seas. So the College of Swords with its emphasis on swordplay

    [*]- "Further south-west from Tantyvil along the Emperor's Road, is where Castle Crimson is located. The grand structure is built from red stone and resides on a large hill so it overlooks the surrounding lands. Once ruled by a member of dwarven nobility, the castle has since fallen into the hands of half-elves. The presiding lord of Castle Crimson has a Qualinesti elf for a mother, and his father was an Ergothian noble and a direct relation to the emperor of Ergoth Proper. The Lord of Castle Crimson normally occupies a seat in the Imperial Senate, and has a powerful legion of soldiers at his disposal within the castle. Surrounding settlements are situated at the base of Castle Crimson, and are home to guild thieves, bards and Qualinesti refugees who are considered as the protected and favored by the rulers of Castle Crimson."
    I want to put the College of Whispers here. The secret tunnels and training complexes, the company of thieves, and the name "Castle Crimson" just screams that they are up to something. I know the lore has them be "secretive good guys" but Northern Ergoth is already good and just, so what is the point of that? A rump state of an ancient empire needs more treachery and murky politics. Byzantium was famed for its ability to sow discord among its enemies through diplomacy and bribes and a College of Whispers could do that for Northern Ergoth, and for indivdual bards to infiltrate and meddle for their own individual gain as well.

    Yeah, this is too good not to do. Ergoth exporting treacherous bards to divide Solamnia among its duchies, keep the unconquered South island in a state of Chaos, convince Sancrist and the Elven Forests of Southern Ergoth that they would be better off in Ergoth's sphere of influence, hatch secret plans with Nereka, loot the Great Library of Tarsis for advantageous treaties lost to history etc. etc. Not that Northern Ergoth is evil per se, but because it serves Ergoth's interests if its neighbours are too weak an divided to threaten them.

    [*]- "Taverns and bardic colleges, often constructed in Branchala’s name, see increasing use as platforms to proselytize for the Songmaster. Chief among these is the Song of Life Tavern in Palanthas. Named for the god decades ago, the tavern is well known throughout Solamnia for its excellent nightly performances."
    I don't like that kind of bardic college for Solamnia. The College of Satire however would be a perfect fit. Jesters and Satirists to undercut the pomp and arrogance of the Solamnic Knighthood (and the Solamnic Empire) feels right.

    As well, having places like the song of Life Tavern is much more interesting as a hotbed of satirical and subversive comedy against aristocrats than "place where pretty music is". Solamnic Branchala as a jester-like figure seems to fit as well, given that their impression of the gods seem to resemble a medieval court.


    The dwarfs have their own bards, a skald-like organization (the daewar Golden Hammers from Races of Ansalon), so a sizeable dwarven settlements such as Thorbadin would be a good location for a College of Swords, and it is also mentioned in the canon that minotaurs have a few skalds of their own.
    Dwarves don't have much to do with Branchala, or any of the gods of good. They seem to be pretty devoted to Reorx to the point that I am assuming the Dwarves are Henotheistic. They admit other gods exist, they just don't really have much to do with the dwarves.

    Even assuming there is a bardic college in Thorbardin though, I would not peg Swords as a good fit, given that is more about quick and fast sword wielding bravos than solid and devout golden hammers. They would be a better match for the College of Valor.

    Kenders are supposed to have the greatest love for bards among all races, mostly Gileanites, so again, Lore, though I think they would be more suited to learning on the go.
    I kind of think the glam-rocker college of glamour suits kender the best. If you put it in Hylo you would have three bardic colleges in rivalry with each other in Northern Ergoth, and would cement Northern Ergoth as the place the most bards come from.

    Of course, I kind of wanted to spread the bardic colleges out across the continent like towers of High Sorcery, with each college being unique. But that's okay, I can put monasteries in the east, and bardic colleges in the west, and druids in the middle and that will satisfy my desire for places for PC's to go for lore aside from the Towers of High Sorcery and places like the Sage Academy in Solanthas and the Great Library in Palanthas.


    Taverns and temples of Branchala (like the aforementioned Song of Life in Palanthas),
    Hmm... I wonder if Branchala should have temples or just Bardic Colleges with temples in them? The worship of Branchala seems to be relatively informal in any event.

    Sancrist would be a good place for a College of Valor, I think.
    I would agree with that, and I can't think of a better place for Valor bards other than Solamnia itself, but those bards I want to give a satirical culture. We never did decide what Lancton should be, so I guess they could be Valor bards as well... but somehow it doesn't fit. Valor bards are too warlike for what Lancton seems to be. It doesn't seem to be a college of Lore either (more about music than Lore), or Swords, or Whispers, or Satire. Glamour seems to be a good fit, but again, I'd give at least one to the elves to make them the source of the bardic tradition. Given your writeup, I've been inspired to make a "College of Harmony" since it was supposed to be a college founded to bring unity between elves and humans. This subclass would focus on making other party members work together better and for those that miss the bard being a support character like they were in 3e and Pathfinder. So this bard can give advantage when people attack the same target, allow people in a group to make saving throws with the highest stat among a group of party members, stack skill bonuses when people work on the same skill and so forth.

    We don't have a bardic college for the elves either, so I guess I should take the College of Glamour away from the Kender and give it to the Silvanesti. It is really the college of fey enchantment rather than Freddy Mercury anyway, so that's okay with me too.

    I still want the College of Lore for Tarsis to revive the library there and breathe some life back into the old city. I don't want to give the library to the mages, since Wayreth is close by. I don't want to give it to theclerics or monks, because it would look too much like the Library in Palanthas. So Bards seems the logical choice.

    So to sum up, here is where I would put my bardic colleges and how they came to be.

    College of Glamour (Silvanost, Silvanesti, original bardic college)
    College of Harmony (Lancton, Northern Ergoth) - founded as a cultural exchange with Silvanesti bringing humans and elves together
    College of Lore (Tarsis) founded by bards from Ergoth inspired by the recovery of the lost library in Tarsis.
    College of Valor (Sancrist) founded by bards from the college of harmony who were inspired to lend their voices and swords in battle with the Whitestone forces.
    College of Swords (Goodbay) founded by bards from the college of valor who devoted themselves to art of swordplay.
    College of Satire (Palanthas, Solamnia) founded by bards from the college of valor who were inspired by the oppression of the Solamnic Empire to speak truth to power.
    College of Whispers (Castle Crimson, Northern Ergoth) - founded as a way to sow disharmony amongst Ergoth's neighbours and enemies

    What do you all think?
    Last edited by ferratus; 10-15-2017 at 09:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    Your English is fine. How much of that history was found somewhere and how much is your own creation? It is very good, and I wouldn't change any of it. It certainly works very well as a history. The only thing I would add is more meddling by the Order of High Sorcery. Bardic magic just seems like something they would be interested in at best, and suspicious of at worst.
    I think I compiled about one quarter of it from many different sources and created the rest based on pieces of information spread across the books and the Lexicon as reference and context, like the part about Cyan Bloodbane.

    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    If you were to make the college of Lancton a bardic college in 5e D&D, what bardic college subclass would you make it?
    To me the College is the bardic centre of the world. In a part of the backstory I didn't write in my previous comment, building upon something I read in one of the Fifth Age Saga supplements, it is mentioned that the college has a limited number of students and masters, and that the masters meet from time to time, every five years I think, to review the curriculum. I added to that a new course on bardic magic. That would probably accomodate most of the offical 5th edition colleges individually. In short, if I had to choose the college could teach every bard tradition in the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    I want to put the College of Whispers here. The secret tunnels and training complexes, the company of thieves, and the name "Castle Crimson" just screams that they are up to something. I know the lore has them be "secretive good guys" but Northern Ergoth is already good and just, so what is the point of that? A rump state of an ancient empire needs more treachery and murky politics. Byzantium was famed for its ability to sow discord among its enemies through diplomacy and bribes and a College of Whispers could do that for Northern Ergoth, and for indivdual bards to infiltrate and meddle for their own individual gain as well.
    I like this idea. Lady Caralyssa of Castel Crimson is described in the Age of Mortals sourcebook as a figure similar to Eleanor of Aquitaine and I could totally see her as the Red Robe head of a spy network.


    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    I don't like that kind of bardic college for Solamnia. The College of Satire however would be a perfect fit. Jesters and Satirists to undercut the pomp and arrogance of the Solamnic Knighthood (and the Solamnic Empire) feels right.

    As well, having places like the song of Life Tavern is much more interesting as a hotbed of satirical and subversive comedy against aristocrats than "place where pretty music is". Solamnic Branchala as a jester-like figure seems to fit as well, given that their impression of the gods seem to resemble a medieval court.
    The College of Satire is a tough one. On one hand I see what you mean about Solamnia, on the other i like the idea of travelling bards and apprentices. The Goodfellows of Branchala could work that way as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    Dwarves don't have much to do with Branchala, or any of the gods of good. They seem to be pretty devoted to Reorx to the point that I am assuming the Dwarves are Henotheistic. They admit other gods exist, they just don't really have much to do with the dwarves.

    Even assuming there is a bardic college in Thorbardin though, I would not peg Swords as a good fit, given that is more about quick and fast sword wielding bravos than solid and devout golden hammers. They would be a better match for the College of Valor.
    Agreed. Racial bard traditions are going to be hard to deal with anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    I kind of think the glam-rocker college of glamour suits kender the best. If you put it in Hylo you would have three bardic colleges in rivalry with each other in Northern Ergoth, and would cement Northern Ergoth as the place the most bards come from.

    Of course, I kind of wanted to spread the bardic colleges out across the continent like towers of High Sorcery, with each college being unique. But that's okay, I can put monasteries in the east, and bardic colleges in the west, and druids in the middle and that will satisfy my desire for places for PC's to go for lore aside from the Towers of High Sorcery and places like the Sage Academy in Solanthas and the Great Library in Palanthas.
    Glam-rocker kender is going to be my band's name if I ever form a band. In the best kender custom, I'll borrow that one from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    Hmm... I wonder if Branchala should have temples or just Bardic Colleges with temples in them? The worship of Branchala seems to be relatively informal in any event.
    Travelling bards, I say to thee!



    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    College of Glamour (Silvanost, Silvanesti, original bardic college)
    College of Harmony (Lancton, Northern Ergoth) - founded as a cultural exchange with Silvanesti bringing humans and elves together
    College of Lore (Tarsis) founded by bards from Ergoth inspired by the recovery of the lost library in Tarsis.
    College of Valor (Sancrist) founded by bards from the college of harmony who were inspired to lend their voices and swords in battle with the Whitestone forces.
    College of Swords (Goodbay) founded by bards from the college of valor who devoted themselves to art of swordplay.
    College of Satire (Palanthas, Solamnia) founded by bards from the college of valor who were inspired by the oppression of the Solamnic Empire to speak truth to power.
    College of Whispers (Castle Crimson, Northern Ergoth) - founded as a way to sow disharmony amongst Ergoth's neighbours and enemies

    What do you all think?
    I agree in general, perhaps another Solamnic city instead of Palanthas to diversify a little? Was it Solanthus the one Jaymes Markham attacked with his cannons after killing the captive lord? They could retaliate that way.

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