Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Mishakal priests can't take life?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    68

    Default Mishakal priests can't take life?

    Can priests of Mishakal not take a life? In the Reign of Istar Michael is talking to Mishakal and the goddess says to him, "But by killing this man, Michael, you do break my vows."

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Berkeley Ca
    Posts
    7,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian View Post
    Can priests of Mishakal not take a life? In the Reign of Istar Michael is talking to Mishakal and the goddess says to him, "But by killing this man, Michael, you do break my vows."
    Well, if Mishakal says it breaks her vows, than it really means that it breaks her vows. Narratively, I don't see it. I think Paladine and Mishakal wouldn't want killings. Kiri-jolith and Habbakuk might think differently, in my opinion. Gamewise, it's like the knight who plays lawful stupid and refuses to kill an enemy. So, the only way I can see this is if Mishakal reasons that it's acceptable. So, here are some possibilities:

    1) She is ordered to accept the action. An example would be the cataclysm, where a LOT of people died. I don't think Mishakal would be happy with millions dying with an asteroid strike, but I think the deal with all the gods means it's going to happen. However, In Taladas, she did create a secret cult to stave off the pain and suffering of so many people.

    2) The needs of the many outweigh the need of the many. I doubt it, but if the killing a person and harvesting his blood to cure thousands of people from a deadly disease..... maybe?

    3) If the pain and suffering of an incurable disease is so great that a person would like to die, maybe Mishakal would be in favor of mercy killings, and the right to die. But it's quite a long step. I tend to say no, because in a world where the afterlife is real, the pain and suffering in this incarnation of life "builds character." In my mind, Mishakal's desire to heal the suffering from death and disease stems from a belief that everyone deserves a second chance, and everyone should be given as much chances to redeem the irredeemable. A key example would be Elistan. You would think that the spread of the church of Paladine under Elistan is a good think, and keeping him from dying would further the church. But Elistan still dies. Perhaps he fulfilled his destiny, did good works, and so dies with the blessing of Mishakal.

    Also, with the Elistan example, his death paves the way for Crysania to take over. That would be an example of reason #1.

    So, I would say, ask any doctor on why he could renounce his Hippocratic Oath and help/allow people to die. I would think you could draw on that for more reasons Mishakal could possible accept one of her own taking a life. Hope that helps.
    Last edited by Weldon Chen; 05-07-2017 at 11:19 PM.
    Fanwank
    Formerly from Wikipedia, circa 2006-7,
    A fanwank is [...] an attempt by fans of a work of fiction to explain or justify plot holes or continuity errors, often through convoluted contrivances...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    68

    Default

    What's not clear from the book is whether taking a life breaks the vows, or doing so under that exact circumstance would. His intention was for what he thought was a righteous cause, so I tend to think Mishakal meant killing breaks the priest's vows.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian View Post
    Can priests of Mishakal not take a life? In the Reign of Istar Michael is talking to Mishakal and the goddess says to him, "But by killing this man, Michael, you do break my vows."
    Maybe Mishakal's views changed over time. She could have been pacifistic during the Age of Might (when good held sway over the land and had less need to resort to deadly force) but after witnessing the Cataclysm and all the suffering during the Age of Despair, she could have decided that sometimes deadly force is necessary to stop evil. (Certainly Goldmoon used the Blue Crystal Staff (a holy item of Mishakal) to strike down the black dragon Khisanth and was rewarded for doing so by becoming a cleric of Mishakal which suggests that by the War of the Lance Mishakal was fine with her followers killing in a just war.)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    12,542

    Default

    In the Age of Mortals Mishakal is definitely more militant. I think taking a life in cold blood would break her vows.
    -Dragonlance Nexus Social Media Manager-
    GM - ICRP: Star Wars - Dawn of Defiance

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    136

    Default

    Could it be his specific vows to Mishakal?
    Seriously; what's the point of being a minotaur if you're not going to skewer something, anything, on those beautiful horns....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,826

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SaygahMinotaur View Post
    Could it be his specific vows to Mishakal?
    That's what I am thinking. It could be perhaps that he has made vows to a particular pacifistic religious order. Other religious orders in service to Mishakal might not demand vows of non-violence, and might even be Hospitalier crusading knights.
    The official canon of Dragonlance, for a variety of reasons, is not as good as it could be. I do it better.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The misty isle, England
    Posts
    289

    Default

    I can't recall the name, but there was a prestige class in HOotS that was in essence a cleric of Mishakal that had pledged a vow on non-violence and earned increased healing powers and advantages against the undead. From a narrative point of view kind of makes sense to have clerics from different parts of Krynn, like the Khur Mishakites, with a more liberal aptitude towards violence to protect others, and more civilized or less militant races and nations which have no tolerance towards it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The misty isle, England
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daperdepa View Post
    I can't recall the name, but there was a prestige class in HOotS that was in essence a cleric of Mishakal that had pledged a vow on non-violence and earned increased healing powers and advantages against the undead.
    The Healing Hand. Found it. It was making me crazy.

    I had to check my Holy Orders of the Stars to find the Pacifism feature:

    "Pacifist: A 1st level, the healing hand has sworn an oath
    of nonviolent action. Although this oath does not prevent
    her from defending herself or her charges from enemies,
    she is forbidden to take a life or cause the death of another.
    For the purposes of this oath, the following creatures are
    exempt: constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, undead,
    and vermin. A healing hand that willingly or accidentally
    breaks this oath suffers the consequences(...)"

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •