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Thread: Mina as an Empyrean

  1. #1
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    Default Mina as an Empyrean

    So I am chipping away at a 16th century version of Dragonlance, 100 years after the Jaymes Markham's final victory over Ankhar.

    One problem with this future version of the setting is that I don't like Mina the goddess for a few reasons:

    1) Mina isn't really a good fantasy name for a goddess. Too common and American.
    2) The fact that she ensures the balance by jumping from good and evil seems particularly unbalanced.
    3) She is not as interesting as Takhisis and never will be. It is hard to compete with 5 heads.
    4) I find her character wore out her welcome fairly quickly, ironic given that I got back into Dragonlance with Dragons of a Fallen Sun.

    So I'm not happy with the direction her character took when she became the "goddess of tears" and I have little interest in using her for adventures. It states in the appendix of Amber and Blood that she will not take any clerics or found a church. Instead she is more of a hero god that is said to be present in moments of ill fortune as a baleful presence or consolation depending on the culture's perception of her. This allows me to ignore her for the most part, but those who like Mina or want to keep closer to continuity can use her.

    So since that is the case, why not make her an Empyrean, a being with stats that can appear when called upon or exists as a presence on Krynn (ie. a plot device), but not muddy the waters by calling her a God? Empyreans are the children of the Gods of the Upper Planes and so is Mina. Perhaps then where her proper place is with the other children of the gods such as Malfesus, Artha and Toede, who are all children of Takhisis.

  2. #2
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    Seems to me a way more interesting way to deal with the character, and that's something similar to what I have been thinking of doing (although I had thought of her being a demigod.)
    It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you [...] YOU ARE CREATOR AND FINAL ARBITER.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    So I am chipping away at a 16th century version of Dragonlance, 100 years after the Jaymes Markham's final victory over Ankhar.

    ... I don't like Mina the goddess ...

    This allows me to ignore her for the most part, but those who like Mina or want to keep closer to continuity can use her.
    I read this a couple times and my only guess is that you are trying to publish something?

    If you are just making a homebrew campaign do what you want with Mina.

    I like her as a God because its canon. I like that she is simultaneously good and evil because it is unique to Dragonlance to fill out the pantheon. If you want something unique with your campaign, go ahead.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    2) The fact that she ensures the balance by jumping from good and evil seems particularly unbalanced.
    Someone who can go back and forth between good and evil? Sounds like true neutral to me.

    3) She is not as interesting as Takhisis and never will be. It is hard to compete with 5 heads.
    What deity is? Even Paladine has a hard time keeping up with her.

    I will say that I find her more interesting as a neutral character than I do Gilean.

    So I'm not happy with the direction her character took when she became the "goddess of tears" and I have little interest in using her for adventures. It states in the appendix of Amber and Blood that she will not take any clerics or found a church. Instead she is more of a hero god that is said to be present in moments of ill fortune as a baleful presence or consolation depending on the culture's perception of her. This allows me to ignore her for the most part, but those who like Mina or want to keep closer to continuity can use her.
    I like to think of her as a "goddess of mortals," since she was raised as one.

    What I like about her is that she shakes things up a bit.

    So since that is the case, why not make her an Empyrean, a being with stats that can appear when called upon or exists as a presence on Krynn (ie. a plot device), but not muddy the waters by calling her a God? Empyreans are the children of the Gods of the Upper Planes and so is Mina. Perhaps then where her proper place is with the other children of the gods such as Malfesus, Artha and Toede, who are all children of Takhisis.
    It's an interesting thought. I'm not sure how I feel about that. It solves a few issues, but I think it takes away from the Dark Disciple series.

    Personally, I think a great campaign could be put into effect when she does decide to be active as a deity.
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  5. #5
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    Bram Stoker likely disagrees with you about your assessment of Mina as a name.

    Ever is the problem of trying to categorize what should in most cases never come up in play mechanics-wise. Mina can be exactly who she is, and never appear in your game, to the loss I'm assuming of nobody.

    Cheers,
    Cam
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  6. #6
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    Well, it’s clearly short for Wilhelmina.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferratus View Post
    So I am chipping away at a 16th century version of Dragonlance, 100 years after the Jaymes Markham's final victory over Ankhar.

    One problem with this future version of the setting is that I don't like Mina the goddess for a few reasons:

    1) Mina isn't really a good fantasy name for a goddess. Too common and American.
    2) The fact that she ensures the balance by jumping from good and evil seems particularly unbalanced.
    3) She is not as interesting as Takhisis and never will be. It is hard to compete with 5 heads.
    4) I find her character wore out her welcome fairly quickly, ironic given that I got back into Dragonlance with Dragons of a Fallen Sun.

    So I'm not happy with the direction her character took when she became the "goddess of tears" and I have little interest in using her for adventures. It states in the appendix of Amber and Blood that she will not take any clerics or found a church. Instead she is more of a hero god that is said to be present in moments of ill fortune as a baleful presence or consolation depending on the culture's perception of her. This allows me to ignore her for the most part, but those who like Mina or want to keep closer to continuity can use her.

    So since that is the case, why not make her an Empyrean, a being with stats that can appear when called upon or exists as a presence on Krynn (ie. a plot device), but not muddy the waters by calling her a God? Empyreans are the children of the Gods of the Upper Planes and so is Mina. Perhaps then where her proper place is with the other children of the gods such as Malfesus, Artha and Toede, who are all children of Takhisis.
    Heheh. I was thinking along the same thoughts. Afterall, I do have a shadowrun/d20 Modern, Call of Cthulu-esque Dragonlance storyline. That campaign was a post-Chaos-War, where Krynn becomes a very earth-like world by 2123 A.C. The gods are considered more like Greek myths. The War of the Lance is more of an epic told like the Der Ring des Nibelungen. And a single moon (but I can change that to three dead moons). There is no magic (yet). Only humans exists. Technology has advanced to look like Blade Runner and Ghost in the Shell. Of course the players being shadowrunners come across a plot to make draconians in a Bio lab. And they discover that a Red Dragon is the leader of a Multi-national mega-corporation. In the campaign, the players defeat the dragon, stop the draconians, but it sets off a wider plot to crack open the Greygem. The unleashing of Ionthas mutates humans into ogres, minotaurs, goblins, elves, centaur, and kender, with magic running wild.

    But as I was thinking about it, If I were to actively include Mina into the Call of Ionthas (lords I need a better name for that campaign) storyline, I would make Mina's followers very active if She is not. The Church of Mina believes in salvation by believing that Mina will save them of their sins at the end of the world. Having been raised mortal, her church believes that Mina alone fights to protect and redeem their souls when judged in the afterlife. They are the equivalent of Christians, of course. If you don't believe in Mina, then you can't get into Heaven. I'm sure that such a large church has various cardinals and archbishops who work to smite underground sects that pray to "pagan" gods of Light, Grey, and Dark. Hmmmmm. Then the storyline can certainly take on Revelations overtones. Ionthas would be the big bad anti-Christ-like figure that Mina will eventually defeat as promised in prophecies in the Book of Mina.

    So, Ferratus, I'm not sure I helped you at all. So, tell us about your thoughts of 16th century Krynn?
    Last edited by Weldon Chen; 04-24-2017 at 06:58 PM.
    Fanwank
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  8. #8
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    Mina is short for Wilhelmina and it is about the most Germanic female name in existence outside Brunhilda...
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  9. #9
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    Brunhilda made me laugh thinking of an old comic strip from back in the day when there were still newspapers. The comic was called Broomhilda, and it was about a witch.

  10. #10
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    I'm perfectly fine in keeping Mina a deity....somewhere else....on the other side of the meta-cosmos...

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