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Thread: [PF] Officially Unofficial Dragonlance Pathfinder Conversion General Brainstorming

  1. #1
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    Default [PF] Officially Unofficial Dragonlance Pathfinder Conversion General Brainstorming

    This thread is for the conversion of Dragonlance to the Pathfinder rules. If enough material is generated, it will be compiled into PDF format for Nexus submission.

    Details will follow in the next post.

    TABLE OF CONTENTS GO HERE
    Last edited by Tauren_Kai-Jere; 05-05-2014 at 09:48 PM.
    Trampas Whiteman
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    Default Setting Up Ground Rules

    Steelwind suggested this thread. I think this may be a good way to make an "official" conversion guide.

    We need some ground rules before we start. Here are my suggestions.

    1. The MWP 3.5 run on Dragonlance will be our primary source of information, though we may also reference other editions.

    2. We avoid copyright issues. If we have descriptive text, it should be original. Otherwise, conversions only.

    3. We do not design by committee. Someone (or a group of someones) needs to decide what goes in and what goes out.

    4. We should see what opportunities there are to use Pathfinder-specific rules, such as archetypes.

    What else?
    Trampas Whiteman
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    Long Live the Lance!

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    Hello. This is my first post
    I used to have another profile with no posts and it might have been turned off because of inactivity
    ...

    I was chatting with another member at the Piazza and decided to visit here and lo and behold there is a brand new project about the topic I wanted to start. This makes me really happy and a little bit afraid.

    I'm currently DMing a campaign with my own rules Pathfinder rules conversions which I've started almost three years ago and I wanted to post them.
    But there might ba a lot of "2. We avoid copyright issues. If we have descriptive text, it should be original. Otherwise, conversions only." problems, since I mixed a lot of rules from Pathfinder, 3.5 edition rules (which I was unhappy with for the most part), SAGA conversions and even some stuff from 2nd edition AD&D. I think I used a source on the internet for the Sorcerer Mystic.
    I really love the fluff and racial/cultural backgrounds in the 3.0/3.5 Dragonlance books. Some of it is spread a lot through books and some of it collides with older ones.
    I took 2nd edition rules as the most important when converting and used SAGA and 3.5 sources sparingly. Pathfinder has a lot of the SAGA and War of Souls stuff covered, but it needed some connecting.

    Overall I'm very happy with my conversions and the extensive notes might be of worth to this project, but I'm not sure if I could freely post them here since I used "copyrighted material" - since it was for my use I own all of the books I used rules from and some of it is free on the internet.

    I could mail you all the stuff I've been working on.

    Here's the list of the documents I wrote for my house conversion:

    Character creation options and optional rules - which classes I'm using in my Dragonlance and social status options from the second edition rules (bonus character flashing out and starting options). There is an option of awarding players 2 bonus traits at character creation to expand their background in the last chapter of Advanced Players Guide. Since I've introduced Social Status which gives you some sort of a bonus, I decided that players roll for Social Status and they gain one Trait.
    Social status can be randomly predetermined or not, depends on the game master and player consensus, but most of people would choose higer status with a freedom of choice... I allowed my players two rolls and to choose from those two options.
    Social status was also kept during the SAGA period of rules and didn't take on in the 3rd editon D&D and it's an option I think is importand for DL game.

    Dragonlance feats - I've changed some of the 3.5 DL feats into traits and converted most of them to be balanced with Pathfinder, also some new feats and new Special entry for a Pathfinder Feat (because ... kenders)

    Races of Ansalon - Some of them have been completely changed, some of them have just different Racial traits (Qualinesti, nomadic humans, etc.). This is the file I've revisited the most. There are a couple of more exotic playable races I haven't completed yet (draconians, fauns, children of the sea...)

    Gear and Special Items - a smaller file.. I just wanted to diferentiate Solamnic gunpowder and the unstable Goblin powder which I used for dynamite in my campaign. Haven't finished special types of armor form Races of Ansalon yet.

    Weapons of Ansalon - this one was one of the easiest conversions. Most of the weapons have stats in Pathfinder books (for example crook blade is falcata). Some are dual weapons with the used stats (kender and minotaur weapons) and I used a 3.0 D&D Weapon Equipement book as an inspiration for a couple of weapons.

    Vital Statistics and Languages - these are mostly copied from Races of Ansalon and DL Campaign Setting, but I had to do a bit of balancing and I digged a bit everywhere to find out that the icespeak uses ogre alphabet since of the history of Kingdom of Icereach before Cataclysm.

    Knights of Krynn 1 & 2 - I mostly used Cavalier class as a base class and alternated some classes with war priest, ranger or magus. Orders of Takhisis are three different classes, both cavalier orders, mishmash of cleric/paladin/cavalier for order of the Skull, and mishmash of cavalier and magus for order of the Thorns and a cavalier with a bit of new abilites for Lily. I added Noble Cavalier, Steel Legionnaire and Rogue Knight as alternative orders and they are mostly cavalier class, with Noble Cavalier without any changes.
    Most of these are alternate classes.

    Knight of Solamnia is being converted in a different manner from the last I've posted since it was too complicated.
    Knight of the sword is a mashup of cleric and cavalier, but with some different abilites per new War Priest advanced class.

    Knight of the Rose and Rogue Knight will be only prestige class knight classes. Others are alternate classes and Noble Cavalier and Knight of the Crown are base class with different order abilities and skill sets.

    I've used DLCS as a guideline how to do all of these classes and I've used some flavor from AD&D DL and DL SAGA while building the classes.

    Legion of Steel Classes - I converted some of the prestige classes into archetypes and some I kept as prestige classes (scout and sorcerer)

    Solamnic/Neraka Classes - I haven't touched those yet...

    Magic of Krynn - I introduced Elemental Magic since I used Talis cards for my game and introduced the fifth element of Wood (life) and it's mentioned in Pathfinders Ultimate Magic...
    This file distincts various types of magic (since I allow Witch class and I had to explain what type of magic it uses/used on Krynn and its changed place in the Universe).
    Also I've used Primal magic rules from Pathfinder (Inner Sea Magic) and expanded upon it adding how it triggers and how and why was magic so dangerous during the First Dragon War (and modern sorcerers could also trigger catastrophic magic). I also went into Mystic magic and mystic like magic that is used during the Age of Mortals when there were no gods (ancestor/spirit mystic magic, shamanism and elemental mysticism).
    All non-mystic, non-divine, non-High Magic spellcasting can cause a Primal Magic event and it depends how strong/destructive it is depending on its level. I devided it into three strenght levels: 1-3, 4-6 and 7-9 levels of spells and each has a random table of events.
    I'm still tweaking those...

    Arcane Traditions of Krynn - Most important in here are the inclusion of the new spellcasting Pathfinder class that I use for Wizards of Primal Sorcery.
    I decided that sorcerers are a rare practicioners of magic with strong magical bloodlines - same as in Pathfinder, so there is a new class called Arcanist that was in beta testing for Advanced Classes Guide (Pathfinder) which is coming out at the and of the summer. It complements the sorcerers from the stories and SAGA perfectly.
    Wizard of High Sorcery is still a prestige class, but I changed it a bit allowing any arcane spellcasting class taking it (so it reforms those "renegade mages" into the less dangerous magic). I have an idea for a Mage War with the High Magic orders and all other Primal casters somewhere post War of Souls and this class was tweaked for those purposes... (I should open a new topic for this).

    I've added some archetypes for various spellcasting cultures (some are copied from Golarion, like tattoo magic for Kagonesti, but those are not for this thread).

    I've converted Sylvan Mage, Winternorn and War Mage (this one needed just a little tweaking).

    Mystic Traditions of Krynn - These are all mystic classes, almost all are derived from Oracle, but I've limited which class can take which mysteries. Citadel Mystic is the most common class obviously and I invented a new Sphere mechanic which is used instead of oracles curse (extra spells and each sphere has a negative side effect - I've used Haunted oracle curse as a template for creating mystic spheres). Citadel mystic can take all mysteries and spheres will give them a little number of extra spells, this is due to their extra training at the Citadel.

    Other mystic classes have a more basic abilities exchanging the oracle's curses which. I haven't given any negative sides to their abilities. Tell me if you have different ideas for this.

    Heathen Shamans of Krynn - These are mostly druid archetypes for more of the "primitive" cultures like Kagonesti, Bakali, Goblins, Centaurs and Gully Dwarves. I deduced that this works similar to druid class and used shaman archetypes. Their magic can also cause primal magic event, but is more similar to mysticism - since it comes from ambience and not the divine power. Shaman is a new class from the before mentioned beta testing which is a mix of three classes Witch, Oracle and Druid - I'm using this for nomadic human mystic shamans. These shamans are very rare and every race/culture has only a few, more like a dozen of those shamans with one hierophant - I imagine that they are a secret practice since the age of dreams, carried on through generations.

    Regional and Trade Classes - I've converted some Dragonlance classes like Master and Noble into prestige classes since the don't seem to me worth taking for 20 levels of games. I combined Noble and Master Ambassador into one Prestige Class, so you now have Master, Master Ambassador, Master of Masks (Tarisian prestige class I created using a prestige class of the same name from some 3.5 roguish classes accessory book - I changed it completely) and Master Tinker.
    I still need to revise a part of the tinkering rules which has a file of its own.

    I use Pirate (rogue) archetype for Mariner class. It has all the relevant abilities for the Mariner - it was a no brainer.
    I've also seen an even better version in this thread...

    I still have to do archetypes and prestige classes for specific races and I've writtend down some ideas.
    For example, for a gully dwarf barbarian archetype I'm using a goblin one from Advanced Races Guide (one that uses biting and improvised weapons, can't remember the name) and I've change some abilities a bit...

    That is all for now.
    Last edited by Soth; 05-05-2014 at 12:23 PM. Reason: organizing my future posts by hyperlinking them on this post and a bit of clean-up

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    Trampas, I have a Pathfinder/Dragonlance 3.5 conversion thread that's been running since I started my Dragons on the River of Time play-by-post campaign. It includes a lot of miscellaneous stuff (random clerical domains, a few PrCs, a handful of races, but it includes a mystic and noble conversion that our group of gamers has been using for a while. I've got a handful of monsters that I've done "behind the screen" too. We've just kind of been converting what we need as we go. Should I link to the thread for mass perusal?

    I guess I'm unclear what this thread is for. Is it for finished conversions? Conversion discussion? Individual guides like what Soth posted? I'll happily contribute, but I want to make sure I understand how I can do that in a useful fashion without cluttering up the thread with garbage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauren_Kai-Jere View Post
    Trampas, I have a Pathfinder/Dragonlance 3.5 conversion thread that's been running since I started my Dragons on the River of Time play-by-post campaign. It includes a lot of miscellaneous stuff (random clerical domains, a few PrCs, a handful of races, but it includes a mystic and noble conversion that our group of gamers has been using for a while. I've got a handful of monsters that I've done "behind the screen" too. We've just kind of been converting what we need as we go. Should I link to the thread for mass perusal?
    Yes, please!

    I guess I'm unclear what this thread is for. Is it for finished conversions? Conversion discussion? Individual guides like what Soth posted? I'll happily contribute, but I want to make sure I understand how I can do that in a useful fashion without cluttering up the thread with garbage.
    Conversion discussion leading to an eventual (maybe?) online PDF sourcebook for Dragonlance. At the very least, I would like to get the core Dragonlance gaming materials converted for Pathfinder.

    I want to keep this as simple as possible, though, and I want to do it right.
    Trampas Whiteman
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    Long Live the Lance!

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    I went througho all of the 3.5 Dragonlance stuff and there is still a lot of racial specific stuff I didn't touch yet but I had some ideas how to go about it, but I've worked through all of the iconic Dragonlance (& old D&D) stuff like handlers and irda specific spellcasters.

    Only thing I didn't go converting on alphabetic basis is monsters and NPCs and I convert them on the fly as I need them for the campaign.

    About the copyright, Pathfinder is mostly open source and Dragonlance not so much.
    How do we go about that?

    I suppose I write it like this - I'm using this ability from this Patfinder archetype/class/creature for this Dragonlance class/creature.
    Rewrites of Dragonlance feats in Pathfinder style is ok I guess. Half of DL feats are ok as they are I think. Some of them should be converted into Traits and/or avaliable only during character creation.

    One of the bigger problems for converting concerning monsters is the abilities/size per age of the dragon (Chaos Dragons). I compared Fire Dragon with Primal Lava Dragon from Pathfinder.

    EDIT

    I just wanted to "say" the most important stuff that were for me when I did my conversion:

    1. It has to be fun.
    I read Dragonlance 3.0 and 3.5 stuff and although the ideas were fun, the execution wasn't as much fun in my opinion.
    A lot of stuff were really clunky and seemed unsable or unreachable, of this I mean new classes, some races like irda (a weird mashup of a drow elf and changeling from Ebberon doesn't feel like irda) and centaurs, 5th Age magic, most of prestige classes. The feats seemed the best of the lot.
    Pathfinder had a lot of solutions for the bigger problems with much simpler mechanics - oracles as mystics, arcanist (class that's coming out in August) for primal sorcerers and cavalier as a base idea for knights.
    My design idea for the knights should be that you shouldn't force players to pay tax and build up prerequisites to enter a presitge class for something as common as a knight class.

    2. It has to be accessible to players (people should want to take the classes/races for their usefulness in the game) and balanced toward everything else in the campaign. This is the hardest point of any game design I guess.

    3. It should follow Dragonlance canon. I see no big problem with this point here, but I do see some contradictions in how things were translated into mechanics that went against the canon. Every project I've read from NEXUS so far had everything right, so this is just a personal note of what I was thinking.

    I hope what I'm writing here is not too confusing and easier to follow than the previous post.
    Last edited by Soth; 05-05-2014 at 11:37 AM. Reason: making some points and grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soth View Post
    About the copyright, Pathfinder is mostly open source and Dragonlance not so much.
    How do we go about that?
    It’s pretty simple, actually.

    Pathfinder: Just because the OGL exists doesn’t mean you have to agree to the terms of the OGL. Since game rules can not be copyrighted, you can create a Pathfinder-compatible product just as long as you don’t include any actual literary or artistic material from their product (which you wouldn’t need to, anyway) and Paizo can’t go after you (and probably wouldn’t ever, anyway, since we’re talking about a free posting on a fan website).

    Dragonlance: The Nexus has long been permitted to post Dragonlance fan conversions and fan original materials, with the explicit and implicit permission of WotC. They couldn’t really stop us from doing so now (and probably wouldn’t ever, anyway).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer View Post
    It’s pretty simple, actually.

    Pathfinder: Just because the OGL exists doesn’t mean you have to agree to the terms of the OGL. Since game rules can not be copyrighted, you can create a Pathfinder-compatible product just as long as you don’t include any actual literary or artistic material from their product (which you wouldn’t need to, anyway) and Paizo can’t go after you (and probably wouldn’t ever, anyway, since we’re talking about a free posting on a fan website).

    Dragonlance: The Nexus has long been permitted to post Dragonlance fan conversions and fan original materials, with the explicit and implicit permission of WotC. They couldn’t really stop us from doing so now (and probably wouldn’t ever, anyway).
    I would add that the Nexus has all the legal disclaimers in place that Paizo requires for fan sites. Thanks to Ravenmantle for that assist.
    Trampas Whiteman
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    Here is the link to our finished conversion thread: http://www.dragonlanceforums.com/for...r-Conversions)

    Obviously keep the discussion of these conversions to this thread. All of these have been play-tested extensively. They work well for my games. Let me know what you guys think!

    I've also converted the following monsters to Pathfinder: baaz draconian, bozak draconian, fetch, kapak draconian, shadow person, sivak draconian, kodragon, and stahnk.

    I can produce stat blocks if people want to see them. The draconians and shadow people were some of the first monster conversions I attempted and haven't been tested very much (or at all in some cases). The others I think are pretty good and have been run through at least one encounter in a game.
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    Falconer, thank you for clarifying copyrights for me. It helps me with posting these immensely.
    I apologize for possible bad English in advance.


    Existing Classes
    - how I see it plus added remarks from the community.

    Alchemist - magical tradition that the Wizards of High Sorcery allowed to exist, but are restricted to gnomes. Thanks to
    Trampas for pointing gnomes out.

    Barbarian - unchanged

    Bard - this class is an enigma for me. It should operate the same in all the ages and on the other hand they should have been hunted as renegade spell casters, but there is no record of it.

    Blade Dancer - this is a spontaneous caster magus archetype for high elves. An hommage to 2nd edition D&D.

    Cleric & Druid - clerics and druids cast divine spells granted by a diety. So their powers are useless in ages when there are no gods influence present.

    Fighter - unchanged

    Gunslinger - highly improbable class since gunpowder is a Solamnic military secret. I guess Tinker Gnomes invented it when they blew the top of Mt. Nevermind before the summer of Chaos.

    Inquisitor - the Witch Hunter archetype perfectly emulates Renegade Hunters. Basic class avaliable after War of Souls.

    Knights: Knight of Solamnia (some orders use divine powers and spells - broken into two alternate classes and a prestige class); Knight of Takhisis - Lily(cavalier like alternate class), Skull(mystic/cavalier mashup alternate class), Thorn(magus archetype); Noble Cavalier(base class), Rogue Knight (prestige class), Steel Leggionaire(ranger/cavalier mashup alternate class) - all of these classes use Cavalier class for base abilities.

    Mariner
    - original Dragonlance advanced class converted by Bong Bellowsmoke (similar to slayer).

    Monk
    - monks are priests of Majere and rare traditions of monks do exist (Kazelati and Tayfolk), but remain unchanged

    Mystic - Dragonlance specific Oracle archetypes and alternate classes.

    Ranger - Spiritual Ranger, Trapper and Yeoman are the only avaliable archetypes during the 5th age when there were no Godly influence. Ranger class on its own isn't avaliable at some ages.

    Paladin - avaliable only in ages when gods are present. It was much more common during the age of Dreams.

    Rogue - unchanged.

    Shaman - shaman druid archetypes for "primitive" races and advanced Shaman class for nomadic humans. They use mysticism, but it's an ambiental sort of mysticism if the spellcaster didn't train at the Citadel.

    Sorcerer - some bloodlines are not avaliable and some have different names.

    Summoner - I totally forgot to mention these. As Trampas mentioned, they have no place in Dragonlance.

    Wizard of Primal Sorcery & Wizard of High Sorcery - High Sorcery = prestige class, Primal Sorcery = advanced Arcanist class.
    Arcanist class is a combination of Wizard and Sorcerer classes and its flavor doesn't require the character to be of a certain bloodline as sorcerer, but with training it can unlock sorcers bloodline spellcasting potential. The class also deals with controlling existing magical energies, uses a larger spell list than the Sorcerer class, but can cast a limited number of spontaneous spells per day with a bigger number of slots as a sorcerer class and can use some abilities of Wizard specialist schools.
    I think it emulates Dragonlance Primal Sorcerers better than Sorcerers, but I allow both Sorcerer classes in my campaign. I don't know what are the communities thoughts on this...

    Witch - practicioners of alien otherwordly magic, teached by hags, female thanoi and ogre magi are appearent in all ages, but they are secretive and exclusive.
    After Takhisis have stolen the world I hypotesize that this also changed connections to Ethereal and Inner Planes where withces get their magic. Also there is an alien influence on Krynn that has appeared with the Dragon Overlords.
    Last edited by Soth; 05-03-2014 at 07:26 PM. Reason: responding to people and updates after community response

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