+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: noble class

  1. #1
    hammerspace Guest

    Default noble class

    A friend of mine is starting a dragonlance campaign and I am considering creating a character with the noble class.
    My only problem is that mechanically the noble seems like a weaker version of a3.0 bard.
    Have there been any updates or changes or even unoffocial errata so the class would at least look like weaker version of a 3.5 bard?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Castle Eastwatch
    Posts
    15,613

    Default

    I'm moving this to gaming, since it really isn't errata. Cam could probably best answer your question, being the noble that he is.
    Trampas Whiteman
    ---DragonHelm--->



    Long Live the Lance!

    "Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Dragonlance Nexus!"
    -David "Big Mac" Shepheard

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bastion and Parts North
    Posts
    11,629

    Default

    The noble isn't a good choice for everybody. It's a heck of a lot better than the aristocrat, which has at times been considered as "almost a PC class" but you're right - it does seem like a bard without the spells. There are occasionally substitution levels and alternative class features created for the noble - the armiger substitution levels in Knightly Orders of Ansalon are one example. Otherwise, I don't really know what to tell you. If you're not in it for the party support role, the breadth of skills, or the nice saving throws, I'd choose something else. Fighters, paladins, even rogues and wizards can all be "noble."

    Cheers,
    Cam
    Moderator | Member - Whitestone Council
    Visit Atlas Games for information about Gloom, Once Upon a Time, Ars Magica, Over the Edge, Feng Shui, and many other card games & RPGs!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Laporte, IN
    Posts
    86

    Default

    One game I started early this year struggled to survive and died ignominiously, but the wiki I created for the game still remains.

    The game had a mix of players, some brand new to the 3.5 rules, and some clamoring to use the core classes presented in the Complete series and other sources. Everyone agreed that the new classes (like the Duskblade and the Binder) were slightly more powerful (for lack of a better word) than the PHB classes.

    To counteract the perceived imbalance, I built alternate core classes for players who wanted to use them; one result was the Aristocrat. The Aristocrat is based on the DL Noble and an NPC class from the D&D Wiki called the Aristocrat-Socialite.
    Dorkistan
    You are only young once, but you can be immature forever.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Port Orchard, WA. US of A
    Posts
    1,044

    Default

    One take on this that I've been considering is allowing players to make gestalt Noble/[insert class here]. This is especially useful for Fighter/Nobles, who wish to become Knights of Solamnia, and it gives them a game stick by which to measure their influence (this take is not for everyone - and I agree, sometimes giving the characters so much rope that they hang themselves with game mechanics is a thing to be avoided).

    The main reason I was considering it, was I had dug out my Oriental Adventures book, and got it into my head that having everyone play Samurai would be fun (note, this would samurai caste - not everyone would be the reworked Fighter class). So, Noble/X gestalt would have been fine for that game, and would have shown some of the divide between castes in highly stratified asian cultures.

    Your turn.
    We are Dragonlance!

    Sorrow's Explanation of THAC0 for the Mystically Inclined: "THAC0 is merely a fintessimable quantifier of the physical capability to intrude upon an object in four-dimensional space, by utilizing the unyielding laws of the universe."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The Anvil of Time
    Posts
    16,403

    Default

    I'm actually playing a noble/mystic of Nobility in Bong Bellowsmoke's Key of Destiny game on the forums here. As I have learned (the hard way too) that although the noble isn't bad in a straight up fight he generally won't last long. The class' real strengths are its party combat boosting abilities and variety of skills. I can see where it could be compared to a weaker bard. However, the noble's class skills and abilities are focused more on influencing and interacting with others where the bard as a little bit of everything.

    It's a great class for a player who enjoys the role-playing aspect of the game and the "social skills," but as others have already said, its not for everybody. For a little more oomph you could certainly multi-class with a spellcasting class (like I did) or another martial oriented class like a fighter. The difference between a noble, bard, or any other class is the mindset of the player. You're an influential or wealthy person helping adventurers do important things. You're not just some common warrior or entertainer!
    Head Moderator &
    Member of the Whitestone Council


    "Hey look! I'm the Code of Conduct! Check me out!" -The Code of Conduct

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Central Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,572

    Default

    Here's a few suggestions for ramping up the noble. Mix and match, as doing all of them might be a bit too much:

    1. The noble's signature ability is Favor. Give that more bite. Double the given bonus, and allow the noble to add his/her Charisma bonus to the check. Consider granting a synergy bonus from 5 ranks or Gather Information or Diplomacy (or both).

    2. Change Inspire Confidence to work exactly like the bard's Inspire Courage ability.

    3. If your noble is using the armiger substitution levels from Knightly Orders of Ansalon, consider allowing additional bonus fighter feats at 5th and 9th levels, which are otherwise fairly dead.

    4. 6 skill points rather than 4.
    Last edited by clarkvalentine; 08-27-2007 at 10:20 PM.
    - Clark Valentine


    Fate Core - Latest incarnation of the Fate Roleplaying engine
    Fate Accelerated - Fate, but streamlined, trimmed back, and Accelerated!

  8. #8
    Tarinor Guest

    Default

    I made similar adjustments.
    † 6 kill points instead of 4
    † 2 extra bonus class skills
    † Bonus leadership feat, with additional bonus feats related to leadership at higher levels.
    † Charisma bonus added to favour role
    † “Noble education” class ability gained at 1st level and once or twice again, which allowed the noble to focus along the line of warrior, rogue/expert or spellcaster a little more by choosing either fighter bonus feat, social/skill feat or allowing having that new level gained to count towards his total caster levels/abilities (similar to substitution levels)

    4 of my 5 players all have some levels in Noble, but only 2 or 3 at most, with the remaining 7 or so levels being from other core classes or prestige classes like sorcerer, rogue, etc. But I have made some memorable NPC villans based on this revised class.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Central Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,572

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinor
    4 of my 5 players all have some levels in Noble, but only 2 or 3 at most, with the remaining 7 or so levels being from other core classes or prestige classes like sorcerer, rogue, etc.
    It does seem like the noble, as well as the master class from the War of the Lance sourcebook, are ideally suited to multiclassing; that's the only way I've really seen either of them used.

    That said, two or three levels of the master class with the sage focus has seen very, very frequent use in my own group, even in non-Dragonlance campaigns, as we all seem to like to play characters with a bit of scholar to them.

    This observation leads me to a question. Do people only take a few levels of noble (or master) because it's an underpowered class, or because the style of play most campaigns support (adventuring parties) doesn't lend itself to the sort of character best portrayed by the noble? Anyone? I'm curious why these two classes which seem really cool on paper don't see much use beyond 2nd or 3rd levels in practice.

    Edit: I may be mistaken - Cam, if you read this, what was Father Jonah's class makeup in our pirates game? Did he have master levels? Edit 2: Wait, he was a hexblade, wasn't he? Never mind.
    Last edited by clarkvalentine; 08-30-2007 at 04:14 PM.
    - Clark Valentine


    Fate Core - Latest incarnation of the Fate Roleplaying engine
    Fate Accelerated - Fate, but streamlined, trimmed back, and Accelerated!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bastion and Parts North
    Posts
    11,629

    Default

    As a followup to Clark's question, how many people play a single-classed character in 3.5? That means no multiclassing with other classes, even prestige classes - just the same class, all the way to the end of the campaign.

    My theory is that many people like the breadth of abilities and customization that multiclassing offers and rarely stick to one class. I know that in my own 3.X campaigns very few of the PCs were single-classed.

    Cheers,
    Cam
    Moderator | Member - Whitestone Council
    Visit Atlas Games for information about Gloom, Once Upon a Time, Ars Magica, Over the Edge, Feng Shui, and many other card games & RPGs!

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts