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SweetMeats
09-15-2004, 10:00 AM
The DLCS gives us two breeds of draconian as potential player races. In the AoM whats the liklihood that a draconian walking into town would not be attacked or forced to leave? What about if they were in the company of non-draconian "friends" of the more standard races?

As my storylines and campaigns progress into the 5th age, I am pondering whether Draconian would be a viable PC race for a typical DL game.

Sephzero
09-15-2004, 10:05 AM
This is probably a good place where the appendix on Acceptance rules for DL really come in handy. Anyway, many of the draconians might have problems interact in areas that are rather isolate from other regions and therefore might not be as easily acceptance of old foes like draconian.

I figure most big cities like Palanthus would not outright attack them, but there might be individuals that won't be as accepting. I suspect that populace will still remain suspicious about draconians even in the company of other standard races and pending their fears might lash back against the entire group.

Ravenmantle
09-15-2004, 12:57 PM
Even though itīs been 71 years since the War of the Lance ended, I still think draconians are generally feared in the vast majority of non-draconian communities. Mothers tell scary stories to their childen about scary scaly creatures killing and plundering, war veterans do the same whenever they get an opportunity. The new generations have grown up with these stories. Add to that the fact that draconians are still "usually evil" (quoting the DLCS) and you have your answer. But thatīs just how I see it :)

Ravenmantle

Willim
09-15-2004, 01:03 PM
But don't the draconians in Teyr have a busy trading partnership with several peoples? Wouldn't the fact that they have a real state make them more acceptable?

((having said this, I understand that they could be veiwed as a "rogue" state))

Sephzero
09-15-2004, 01:07 PM
There are always people that are open to trading with other individuals regardless of the race of their customer. The Knights of Neraka still claim that Teyr is a vassal state to them, only in name though that still isn't good for the reputation. Also with the army of Teyr attacking the KoN during the end of WoS, might not win the draconians of that region any sympathy from the territories controled by KoN.

It is also should be noted that the draconians of Teyr are rather insular and that only a few of the new youngs have left off on adventuring. This means that most other regions might not be that up to date on the situation as there are still plenty of other draconians doing evil by helping the Dragon Overlords. So the situation still isn't that safe for draconians.

OldschoolDL
09-15-2004, 01:28 PM
Why are Baaz and Kapaks the only races that can be PC's.

Ravenmantle
09-15-2004, 01:28 PM
Teyr might be opening up its borders for trade and such but as I see it this trade will only happen in the immediate surroundings...the nation is very young and the population small. I simply donīt see Teyrian caravans traveling to the corners of Ansalon looking to trade. Furthermore communication isnīt a trademark owned by Ansalon, so many Ansalonians may not even know that a draconian nation exists...

Ravenmantle

OldschoolDL
09-15-2004, 01:39 PM
Teyr might be opening up its borders for trade and such but as I see it this trade will only happen in the immediate surroundings...the nation is very young and the population small. I simply donīt see Teyrian caravans traveling to the corners of Ansalon looking to trade. Furthermore communication isnīt a trademark owned by Ansalon, so many Ansalonians may not even know that a draconian nation exists...

Ravenmantle


From what we understood at the end of the War of Souls, It was Kang's Draconians that Slaughtered the retreating Knights of Neraka. Perhaps Teyr could use this was a way to parlay with the Knights of Solamnia for possible Trade, support and perhaps even Recognition of Teyr as a Nation.

Ravenmantle
09-15-2004, 01:57 PM
But would Teyr even be interested in dealing with the Knights of Solamnia? I say no. First of all the Knights of Solamnia is not as powerful as they used to be. This also implies that the Solamnics hardly have the power to recognize Teyr as a nation. Furthermore I honestly donīt think the draconians care about what some armor-clad snobs think of them. As I understand Kang and his mates they really just want to be left in peace.

Ravenmantle

OldschoolDL
09-15-2004, 02:17 PM
Now if the Draconians are capable of being self sufficent able to produce their own food and goods and building material for their towns then i'd agree. But if there are necessities they need and are low about, they would either have to trade or raid for it. The Solamnics might not be as strong as they were, but they are in a better position to barter with, almost in equal positions. The Knights of Neraka's main force was destroyed leaving broken units still in control, two in the former elven lands and the last in Palanthus.

I wouldn't say they would be all that eager to get into a partnership with Solamnics, but their action before the Knights against the Nerakans could be a golden opportunity.

Or perhaps, The Solamnics and the KoN are the wrong knights. Perhaps Teyr would have better treatment and better odds with the Legion of Steel.

Ravenmantle
09-15-2004, 02:27 PM
Well there are cities/towns close to the draconian nation. Why not trade with them instead of approaching a Knighthood (do the Knights of Solamnia even engage in trade?) that used to be (and might still be) considered an enemy? Personally I donīt think the draconians would approach any organization, having some rather unfortunate experiences dealing with such...

Ravenmantle

SweetMeats
09-16-2004, 07:23 AM
Why are Baaz and Kapaks the only races that can be PC's.

I've not really looked at them as they arn't a playable race really IMO (hence the reason for this thread), but I would hazard that they are the only ones with a reaonable power level to be suitable for players.

Sephzero
09-16-2004, 09:46 AM
The reasons those two are presented is because their total Entry Character Level are low enough so that low-level parties can actually play with them without getting too unbalancing. Compare to the other three that start having higher surges of HD and special abilities might require higher ECL starting parties.

As to how easy it is to play them as a character traveling across the world, they will probably have just as much problem as an ogre, minotaurs, irda, and slightly more then a half-ogre. Quite a number of the races avaliable are not all that openly accepted, the adventure for acceptance is one of the features.

OldschoolDL
09-16-2004, 09:54 AM
my games usually start min at 6th level which would be the starting level for sivaks

Does the Baaz and Kapaks get a choice of classes they play (fighters, thieves etc?)

and if PC bozaks sivaks and Auraks are options do they also get a optional choice? Since Bozaks and Auraks get innate magical spells doesn't mean they are wizards themselves.

wannabe_mage
09-16-2004, 09:57 AM
my games usually start min at 6th level which would be the starting level for sivaks
Not if you go by the rules on ECL. A sivak has 6 racial hit dice and a level adj. on 4 meaning a fully grown sivak in the hands of a player is the equivalent of a 10th level character

OldschoolDL
09-16-2004, 09:59 AM
thats interesting, though my group is a bit free forming, and probably would go the straight levels for classes and hd separate.

wannabe_mage
09-16-2004, 10:05 AM
thats interesting, though my group is a bit free forming, and probably would go the straight levels for classes and hd separate.
I ususally think the level adjustments are too high. In regards to the sivak a level adjustment on 2 or 3 would be more fair IMO. Removing the adjustment entirely, makes the player playing the sivak in a party consisting of 6th level charcters too powerful though. But that's just my opinion. It's your game and if it works, it's really none of my business :)

Weldon Chen
09-16-2004, 11:15 AM
I usually go into a speech about canon, but because I love draconians, I'll go beyond my usual rhetoric. :)

Everyone here mentioned some good possibilities about Teyr and towns. My suggestion, use each different view as a faction or philosophy within Teyr. For each town visited, have factions in each town with varying degree of like and dislike for draconians.

I find that the variations can make anything possible for the DM. if you're in an anti-draconian town, don't make the town black-and-white. add a non-conformist, who might aid the draconians and give them shelter. it would be an interesting twist if the harborer was a former Nerakan knight who gives good-aspiring dracs shelter because he wants them to take over the good people of the town. :-)

There are no issues, only drama. :)

Weldon

Ravenmantle
09-16-2004, 11:17 AM
Hmmm I havenīt thought about it like that. But youīre certainly on to someting Weldon!

Ravenmantle

QuentinGeorge
09-16-2004, 04:44 PM
There are draconians walking the streets of Solace in Amber and Ashes. No one seems to give them a second thought in the novel.

Ravenmantle
09-16-2004, 04:52 PM
Iīll bet a body part that those draconians have worked very hard to earn the acceptance of the citizens of Solace...

Ravenmantle

Sephzero
09-16-2004, 05:16 PM
I suspect is also a case of the Sad Town that has taken root just outside of Solace that served as a sort of refugee cluster point for people. All sorts of odd folks have probably shown up there given some of the recent unrest that has stricken the region. Most people in Solace have probably accept the passing refugees as long as they don't cause problems. Not much else they can probably do now.

crown
09-17-2004, 06:43 AM
The DLCS gives us two breeds of draconian as potential player races. In the AoM whats the liklihood that a draconian walking into town would not be attacked or forced to leave? What about if they were in the company of non-draconian "friends" of the more standard races?

As my storylines and campaigns progress into the 5th age, I am pondering whether Draconian would be a viable PC race for a typical DL game.

Just general ideas in different countries/areas and how would they react to draconians:
- Teyr = Homeland = VERY FRIENDLY
- Nordmaar, Probably indiffirent. They work with solamnics, and solamnics probably considere draconians evil. On the other hand Nordmaar IS own country, and I would imagine there has been some trade between Teyr (some like, some don't).
- Neraka / Taman Busuk, because Teyr hasn't become truly nerakas ally the draconians of Teyr are considered enemies. Loyal draconians are probably normal site here.
- Eastwilde, friendly and draconians are common site. I would imagine that barbarians of this land trade with them.
- Kern (and Blöde), Ogres probably welcome draconians. So friendly (or as friendly you can be with ogres).
- Minotaus (Mithas & Kothas, Silvanesti), this is hard one, maybe minotaurs mostly ignore them or maybe they even hate them... Any ideas anyone?
- Saifhum, Sea barbarian island is full of pirates and truly free trading place. Anybody can move here.
- Sanction, probably viewed long, but still welcome (place has always been so mix of races).
- Port Balifor and Flotsam, as Neraka. Wasn't both ruled by Knights of Neraka? Dracos may not be problem to normal folks, but Knights don't like them (unless they are loyal allies).
- Khur, draconians here are probably very common site, but most people don't like them (remainds them to0 much times of Lance). I would still say even dracos can walk freely, even there is racism.
- Plains of Dust & Duntollik, wild region. Some barbarians/nomads probably attack them, others can trade.
- Sable's Realm (New Swamp), draconians are welcome here.
- Icereach, like plains of dust - wild region. Some barbarians/nomads probably considere them enemies, other places they are welcome.
- Kharolis, again draconians are common site here (thanks to Beryl), but people don't really like them. It could be that they still can move freely.
- Dwarven Realms, NO draconians. Dracos bad.
- Qualinesti, well there is lot's of dracos in these forests now.
- Abanassinia, I don't think dracos are welcome here... No, no (expect maybe those parts that are still under Neraka control).
- Solamnic control Solamnia and Lemish, dracos are probably considered enemies and arrested with sight (or hunted down if reported).
- Skies former realm (+ Palanthas), dracos can move freely, but there might be some exceptions (Knight of Neraka considere Teyr dracos enemies, and some communities can act now freely against them).
- Hylo and Sikk'et Hul, If dracos don't cause problems they are welcome.
- Ergoth Barbarian land, might considere dracos enemies and attack (or not).
- Ergoth Empire, dracos are considered enemies and arrested on site I would Imagine.
- Sancrist (Gunthar and Gnomes), as above.
- Southern Ergoth, Solamnic control areas as above, Ogre (or Gellidus) areas they can move freely.
- Throtl (goblin state), can mover freely.
- Citadel of Light, probably would be arrested (attacked by barbarians), unless with some NON-draconic company.

And that should cover mostly Ansalon. If draco behaves peacefully it might be welcome anywhere (any NON-draconic friends helps in this), but I still think these are common taughts/feelings what people in these areas have about them.

Please, any comments.

Morgion
09-17-2004, 02:52 PM
I remember in one of the DragonLance: Fifth Age books, it said that the draconians of Teyr were seeking an alliance with Solamnia, but so far they have had no success because the Solamnics did not want to have any dealings with them. I just wish that I could remember which supplement that it was in.