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Arek Brimstone
09-14-2004, 04:09 PM
Ashe;

On your timeline, you have the attack of the Conclave on the Grey Robes (and the subsequent death of Justarius) happening in 381 AC, then you have the ascention of Gilthas happening in 382 AC. (this is the same as in the DLCS)

My question is, it has been pointed out to me that in the short story "The Sacrifice" (which predates all the Timelines that include these entries for 381 and 382) that Jenna talks about Justarius in the present tense...meaning he's still alive.

So, my question is, how would you justify this? I'm updating my unofficial errata for the DLCS and wondering what (if anything) should be updated in the Timeline involving these two dates.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated (not just from Ashe, anyone who might have a thought on this, I'd love to hear it).

Thanks!

Shugi
09-14-2004, 05:20 PM
I would push forward the assault on Storm's Keep (and Justarius's subsequent death) to late 382 AC, or early 383 AC. If the assault happened in 381 AC, that means the Orders silently recuperated for about two years, which seems a long time considering that the countries of Ansalon were still unprepared for the Dark Knights.

As an aside, this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/dl/special) nicely summarizes the DoSF timeline and the year of 1 SC.

Uziel
09-15-2004, 08:42 AM
Ashe;

On your timeline, you have the attack of the Conclave on the Grey Robes (and the subsequent death of Justarius) happening in 381 AC, then you have the ascention of Gilthas happening in 382 AC. (this is the same as in the DLCS)

My question is, it has been pointed out to me that in the short story "The Sacrifice" (which predates all the Timelines that include these entries for 381 and 382) that Jenna talks about Justarius in the present tense...meaning he's still alive.

Gah! I would take anything I've written that far down in my timeline with a grain of salt. Much of it I wrote in the wee hours of the morning after poring over material and sorting out far too many facts in my brain. ;)

Seriously though... there's only one true flaw in your theory. Whilst Jenna does talk about Justarius in the present tense (in The Sacrifice), she also notes to herself that she hasn't heard from her own father in quite a few months, near the start of the tale... which easily allows for 381 to remain the date of the assault on Storm's Keep, and 382 AC as the date for The Sacrifice.

Uziel
09-15-2004, 08:51 AM
I would push forward the assault on Storm's Keep (and Justarius's subsequent death) to late 382 AC, or early 383 AC. If the assault happened in 381 AC, that means the Orders silently recuperated for about two years, which seems a long time considering that the countries of Ansalon were still unprepared for the Dark Knights.

As an aside, this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/dl/special) nicely summarizes the DoSF timeline and the year of 1 SC.

Sorry Shoogs. If I had've read your post properly before, I would've response 'all in one'. My bad.

Anyway, whilst the Conclave were certainly aware of the dark knights two years before the assault, they had no method by which to stand up to their might. Some of their greatest wizards were decimated, and the other powerful ones like Dalamar, recognised that they did not have the strength to overcome the Knights of Takhisis.

The Solamnics had been warned of the threat of the dark knights even earlier than this. After Tanis and Caramon met with Steel in 378 AC, they went to warn the Solamnics. However the knights dismissed the notion that the dark knights could be a threat, 5 years before their conquest of Ansalon. The Conclave took the warning far more seriously, but paid the price for their act of defiance.

Two years seems a long time, true. But when you are a decimated force with weakened capacity to overcome your opponent 'and' other organisations in the land refuse to acknowledge the fact that they would be threatened by this new order...then your up the creek without a paddle.

Arek Brimstone
09-15-2004, 01:51 PM
Seriously though... there's only one true flaw in your theory. Whilst Jenna does talk about Justarius in the present tense (in The Sacrifice), she also notes to herself that she hasn't heard from her own father in quite a few months, near the start of the tale... which easily allows for 381 to remain the date of the assault on Storm's Keep, and 382 AC as the date for The Sacrifice.Yeah, I re-read "The Sacrifice" this morning and noted that comment (she was blowing it off as him being angry because of a fight they had). But, if Justarius is dead by this point, I think the Conclave must have been keeping it under wraps, because Dalamar does not mention a single word about him being the Head of the Conclave...and certainly, being the Head of the Black Robes, he would have known about the assult on Storm's Keep.

So...I'm at a loss for this. You'd think that Dalamar, being Jenna's lover, would have told her what happened...or that he was dead. Or perhaps, they didn't know yet what had happened to them, so they were keeping it all under wraps. <shrugs>

I still think the right thing to do would be to change the year of the attack to 382...but without conclusive evidence that Justarius is still alive in "The Sacrifice," I don't think I can justify putting it in the errata.

Thanks for the thoughts, guys!

Nightweasel
09-15-2004, 02:59 PM
Wasn't Dalamar in the assault? So he would have known if Justarius was dead or not.......unless the Thorn Knights captured him and tortued him for a while until they did finally kill him.

Arek Brimstone
09-15-2004, 03:13 PM
Wasn't Dalamar in the assault? So he would have known if Justarius was dead or not.......unless the Thorn Knights captured him and tortued him for a while until they did finally kill him.Whether he was there or not is basically irrelevant because he was aware of the attack (since he was the Head of the Black Robes). And, he succeeded Justarius upon his death...so whethere he was there or not, he should be quite well aware of the outcome. (but yeah, I thought he was there, too)

QuentinGeorge
09-15-2004, 04:06 PM
Doesn't Dragons of Summer Flame confirm that Dalamar was the only survivor of the assault on the Gray Robes?

I definately remember that he was there though.

Kendermage
09-15-2004, 05:01 PM
Whether he was there or not is basically irrelevant because he was aware of the attack (since he was the Head of the Black Robes). And, he succeeded Justarius upon his death...so whethere he was there or not, he should be quite well aware of the outcome. (but yeah, I thought he was there, too)

Has anyone considered that maybe Dalamar led the other Wizards into a trap so he could become head of the Conclave? What a great way to get rid of your rivals. Launch an assault on a vastly superior force, while you hang back in the shadows, and watch as your rivals are either captured or killed, then teleport away claiming to be the only survivor, claiming the position you so desperately desired. We may never know what truly happened at Storm's Keep.

Dr_Teeth
09-16-2004, 12:59 AM
Has anyone considered that maybe Dalamar led the other Wizards into a trap so he could become head of the Conclave? What a great way to get rid of your rivals. Launch an assault on a vastly superior force, while you hang back in the shadows, and watch as your rivals are either captured or killed, then teleport away claiming to be the only survivor, claiming the position you so desperately desired. We may never know what truly happened at Storm's Keep.


That does sound like something the apprentice of Raistlin would do.

crown
09-16-2004, 05:07 AM
Has anyone considered that maybe Dalamar led the other Wizards into a trap so he could become head of the Conclave? What a great way to get rid of your rivals. Launch an assault on a vastly superior force, while you hang back in the shadows, and watch as your rivals are either captured or killed, then teleport away claiming to be the only survivor, claiming the position you so desperately desired. We may never know what truly happened at Storm's Keep.

That sounds pure evil, even from evil, like Dalamar. Good dragonlance conspiracy theory.

Personally I think (especially now when I just finished Wizards Conclave) that these Renegade Mages was probably more important thing than planning something like that. Dalamar seems to be HATE non-wizards-of-high-sorcery VERY MUCH. And I would imagine he wouldn't sacrifice his "true brothers and sisters" to some renegades. Destroying those renegades would be priority number one.

Different story is offcourse that Dalamar may have planned just Justarius death. He was probably allready very good canditate to become next Head of Conclave after Justarius.
And Justarius was Jennas father, and Jenna Dalamars lover (and pupil?). Evil, just evil.