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flint
09-04-2004, 05:07 PM
The spell Reverse Death in the ToHS page 49 states that it can bring a character back from life but the character will not be healed from massive damage, poison, disease etc... I fail to see the point of this spell if the target will merely die again immeidiately after having the spell cast upon them. The only purpose it would serve is to create ghosts. Is this spell intended to be a means to resurrect creatures or simply to create ghosts? If it can resurrect creatures how can this be done? Thanks!

iltharanos
09-04-2004, 07:31 PM
Without knowing the exact details of the spell, it still seems as though the spell would be useful in bringing back people that were slain from sheer hack and slash (pure hp loss, and not death from poison, disease, massive damage, etc.)

Anubis.c.k
09-04-2004, 07:37 PM
yes have to agree with that loseing all hit points in one go would negate spell where as los of hit points from ultiple wounds

SweetMeats
09-04-2004, 07:47 PM
I haven't got that far in the book yet but I would guess that its for people who die from spells such as finger of death or death spell. Something that snuffs out the life force. Its not for bringing back people who get trodden on by Dragons Overlords.

WildKnight
09-04-2004, 07:50 PM
I haven't got that far in the book yet but I would guess that its for people who die from spells such as finger of death or death spell. Something that snuffs out the life force. Its not for bringing back people who get trodden on by Dragons Overlords.

Actually, if you think about how D&D works, there are alot of ways a person can die which the spell can bring them back from. For one, the spell *does* work on those who are killed by massive damage (I believe). For another, there are plenty of ways for a person to die w/o going down to -10 hit points or having an attribute drained to 0.

SweetMeats
09-04-2004, 07:54 PM
Oh yes. I was just picking a couple examples.

flint
09-04-2004, 08:44 PM
Thanks for the thoughts! For some reason I wasn't thinking of death spells, that makes sense. In the spell description it does say"If the victim died because of massive damage, the spell will work as normal (unless the massive damage brought the victim to lower than -10 ht points)."

Would it be possible to cast Reverse Death and have a Cleric simultaneously cast a Cure spell?

WildKnight
09-04-2004, 10:36 PM
Thanks for the thoughts! For some reason I wasn't thinking of death spells, that makes sense. In the spell description it does say"If the victim died because of massive damage, the spell will work as normal (unless the massive damage brought the victim to lower than -10 ht points)."

Would it be possible to cast Reverse Death and have a Cleric simultaneously cast a Cure spell?

Yes, that means that the spell would revive someone killed by Massive Damage and they'd be just as fine as if they hadnt been killed at all. A warrior with 140 HP can suffer 51 HP of damage, leaving him with 89, fail a save, and die from massive damage. If that spell were then cast on him, he'd have 89 HP... plenty enough to get up and keep fighting.

flint
09-04-2004, 10:49 PM
Thanks for the info on massive damage. I've never played with that rule, although all of the 3e campaigns I have played or DMed in have been low level campaigns, so there really haven't been any instances of massive damage. I just found it in the PH so I understand that rule now.

What if a PC is taken below -10 hp and die?. Would the Reverse Damage spell be able to be used in conjunction with a cure spell to bring the PC back above -10hp and stabilize the PC.

WildKnight
09-05-2004, 12:16 AM
Thanks for the info on massive damage. I've never played with that rule, although all of the 3e campaigns I have played or DMed in have been low level campaigns, so there really haven't been any instances of massive damage. I just found it in the PH so I understand that rule now.

What if a PC is taken below -10 hp and die?. Would the Reverse Damage spell be able to be used in conjunction with a cure spell to bring the PC back above -10hp and stabilize the PC.

Thats a good question. Technically I think the answer is no. A Cure spell cant work on a corpse, and the spell description says the character re-dies (or becomes a ghost) instantly... so no time to cast a cure spell. Simultaneous casting of both spells doesnt really seem like something that would work, though I guess in the end it would be up to the DM.

Kendermage
09-05-2004, 01:06 AM
I wonder if the onset of a cure spell can be delayed, much like a touch attack? If it could, the cleric could have the spell in hand, wait for the first sign of life, then get off the spell before his patient croaks again. Also what of the laying of hands ability of a paladin? It could work the same way.

Carteeg_Struve
09-05-2004, 10:07 AM
I wonder if the onset of a cure spell can be delayed, much like a touch attack? If it could, the cleric could have the spell in hand, wait for the first sign of life, then get off the spell before his patient croaks again. Also what of the laying of hands ability of a paladin? It could work the same way.

How about a high level 'mending' spell? Since a corpse is considered an object, maybe a spell that repairs damaged items might work in order to (for a lack of better terminology) heal broken items. Since a humanoid body is more complicated than torn cloth, I would assume the cantrip wouldn't work, but maybe something more designed for golem creation or repair could be of assistance (I know Eberron has similar spells). Cast it, repair the body to something survivable, then cast the reverse death spell.

flint
09-05-2004, 01:15 PM
Thanks for the ideas. I like the laying on hands and the mending ideas. I am exploring this spell because I do not allow resurrection magic in my campaign but I feel this spell has enough limitations that it might be usable combined with the fact that it is a 9th level spell so it wouldn't be easily accessible either.

Shugi
09-07-2004, 02:22 PM
An additional option involves casting timeheal on the corpse. I also know a few DMs who allow heal and regeneration spells to work on corpses.